Curse

LightningHell · Feb 04, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Why a caster would bring skills to help a warrior's damage output is beyond me.

Because in Guild Wars, the role of damage always was, and if ANet doesn't screw up big time always will be, in the hands of melee characters.

To sacrifice some of that insane damage to pick up some good spells with a mediocre attribute spread, both in terms of skillslots and time, generally isn't smart.

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You can change targets but that means you've already lost control of the fight. Controlling the fight in my opinion is a warrior's PRIME goal. Killing things, ensuring they can't be defended, etc. That should be key... At least, I hope that's the case...

...Wrong? I can't say anything beyond that...

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There are times and locations where I would use these skills over other war skills. That does not mean they are the best possible skills a war can use but they are very effective in certain situations.

Ah. Okay, I get you. Yes, some skills may be of use in different situations.

There ARE some of them that I disagree with, still:

Quote:

Earthshaker + Bed of Coals/Aftershock.

Aftershock is patently bad. It's been explained many times.

Bed of Coals, while probably not as bad as AS, still is pretty close. It does somewhat more damage than AS, but you also lose your aggro...not to mention these do diddly squat to higher level enemies?

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BackBreaker + Ash Blast(much shorter recharge then belly smash)

Why you would want to bring a spell that blinds people you're killing, I have no idea. If you want a damage followup, bring a damage attack. Besides, why aren't you using Crushing after Backbreaker?

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Shell Shock(really the only effective way a war can cause cracked armor) + Body Blow(or any skill really as your lowering thier armor by 20points).

This sounds like you're trying make a use out of Body Blow, when tere are probably better options.

Just my 2 cents.

Antithesis · Feb 04, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gneppe

Agree with the Paladin thing.

Also this is peoples mind:

Warrior = Damage (OMGWTFZORZGR8DAMAGE!!)
Monk = Leet Survivor (ZOMGIWILNUTDAI!!)

Warrior/Monk = DA THANG! (OMGWTFZORZGR8DAMAGE + ZOMGIWILNUTDAI)

Those template codes don't work at all. They come out as

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

How do you get a 3 class Paladin?!? Please tell me, I NEEDZ uber PvE Whammo pwnage

1 up and 2 down · Feb 04, 2008, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Those template codes don't work at all. They come out as

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

How do you get a 3 class Paladin?!? Please tell me, I NEEDZ uber PvE Whammo pwnage

taht ther skil bar is l33t!11!!1

Crom The Pale · Feb 04, 2008, 05:10 AM // 05:10

With 10 points in Earth Magic After shock will deal 124 AoE dmg to knocked down foes, thats why you chain it to earth shaker.
Bed of Coals is basically the same, though for it I generaly have a Rit in my party with EarthBind.

As for Ash Blast I would suggest its use is just to blind the war attacking my monk so I can turn and kill his monk, ofcourse you need to stack it with weakness or deepwound but its a very fast and effective means of taking any melee/ranger/paragon out of the fight letting you turn your attention on killing the higher priority targets.

What facing a large number of Pargons/wars or even Rangers Cracked armor increases all of your attacks damage by a worth while amount. Shell Shock is the fastest easiest means of doing that.

LightningHell · Feb 04, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Ash Blast requires you to sacrifice a knockdown to...blind somebody. When I knockdown somebody, I usually expect to kill the target within a few hits, as a Warrior.

I'll agree that Cracked Armor is of use to a Warrior. I won't agree that Shell Shock on a Warrior is the best way to achieve it. I'd rather put it on a caster in the group.

Aftershock is bad because of aftercast, energy, and because the damage is pretty bad when it comes to killing targets that matter. It's also bad because casting Aftershock means you don't get a DW. Bed of Coals is marginally better due to burning, but not by far. Losing aggro isn't good.

chowmein69 · Feb 04, 2008, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Those template codes don't work at all. They come out as

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

How do you get a 3 class Paladin?!? Please tell me, I NEEDZ uber PvE Whammo pwnage

haxx0r!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arsie · Feb 04, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

The problem with the Hundred Blades + Sun and Moon Slash combo is that if you can have Sun and Moon Slash, you already own Factions, which means you can have Dragon Slash, which is superior.

The thrill of Hundred Blades comes from see yellow numbers fly from screen edge to screen edge, but that happens like once every 4-5 hours of play? There is a diminishing return for AoE damage, because while mobs clump in PvE, usually there aren't so many to justify some skills.

Thats why, while there were complaints about the nerf to Splinter Barrage, the real result on the ground is probably not very obvious, except in strange places with obsidian tanks and stuff.

I think most people rather see one big yellow number every 1-2 seconds for 30-45 seconds at a time with Dragon Slash.

AoE is better directed by ranged characters anyway. Sword is pretty trash without Factions (and Nightfall). Axe is king of Prophesies.

blue.rellik · Feb 04, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

With 10 points in Earth Magic After shock will deal 124 AoE dmg to knocked down foes, thats why you chain it to earth shaker.
Bed of Coals is basically the same, though for it I generaly have a Rit in my party with EarthBind.

As for Ash Blast I would suggest its use is just to blind the war attacking my monk so I can turn and kill his monk, ofcourse you need to stack it with weakness or deepwound but its a very fast and effective means of taking any melee/ranger/paragon out of the fight letting you turn your attention on killing the higher priority targets.

What facing a large number of Pargons/wars or even Rangers Cracked armor increases all of your attacks damage by a worth while amount. Shell Shock is the fastest easiest means of doing that.

How do you have energy for those spells? Also why use Ash Blast when Hammers already have Belly Smash?

Heck why does a warrior in PvE need to be blinded other than Destroyers? Isn't Aegis + Enfeebling Blood enough to ruin a weapon user's day?

Crom The Pale · Feb 04, 2008, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

How do you have energy for those spells? Also why use Ash Blast when Hammers already have Belly Smash?

Heck why does a warrior in PvE need to be blinded other than Destroyers? Isn't Aegis + Enfeebling Blood enough to ruin a weapon user's day?

With a good adren build the energy is really no big thing and your not spaming these skills, your smart and just laying down the hurt when you know it works best.

Ash blast has a much shorter recharge rate then belly smash, though I must admit I do understand its not a very good skill, I only listed it as usable, If your running belly smash then ash is superior.

I should also mention that most of my "unusual" war builds are backed up by a party that is synced to them. Example when my war has a knockdown build my rit always has Earthbind. If I am laying down bed of coals then my ele is droping meteor shower on them, note that bed is PBAOE so I'd rather the war cast it than have the squishy standing next to me when I've just agroed a mob.

As for the after cast from AfterShock, even without earth bind I have stonefist inscriptions so the 2 seconds is more than enough time for me to hit with a regualar attack, use Whirlwind Attack (often recharging Earthshaker) then knockdown the mob yet again keeping them stationary for any other aoe my party is packing, which is often Spirit Rift on my EarthBind Ritualist.

LightningHell · Feb 04, 2008, 03:20 PM // 15:20

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Ash blast has a much shorter recharge rate then belly smash, though I must admit I do understand its not a very good skill, I only listed it as usable, If your running belly smash then ash is superior.

Does not stop Ash Blast being counterproductive.

Quote:

I should also mention that most of my "unusual" war builds are backed up by a party that is synced to them. Example when my war has a knockdown build my rit always has Earthbind. If I am laying down bed of coals then my ele is droping meteor shower on them, note that bed is PBAOE so I'd rather the war cast it than have the squishy standing next to me when I've just agroed a mob.

I do know that you probably have a party synced to it so that the skills are actually of some use and not randomly tossed together. What I'm trying to imply and question here is the the actual usefulness of these skills compared to if you ran, say, a more standard build. For example, in your few examples...I would never run Meteor Shower on my ele unless there's some rare situation that calls for it. I would also never actually run Earthbind in a proper group. Does having to put otherwise useless skills on other characters in order for your own skills to be remotely useful sound like a good thing?

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As for the after cast from AfterShock, even without earth bind I have stonefist inscriptions so the 2 seconds is more than enough time for me to hit with a regualar attack, use Whirlwind Attack (often recharging Earthshaker) then knockdown the mob yet again keeping them stationary for any other aoe my party is packing, which is often Spirit Rift on my EarthBind Ritualist.

Actually, no. With Stonefists the KD time is 3 seconds. Aftershock has a casting time of .75 seconds, an aftercast time of 1.75 seconds, which is 2.5 seconds in itself. Then your swing would need to be at least 1.17 seconds (that's with an IAS), which would mean your target would've gotten up so that any attack that needs the KD wouldn't have mattered.

Riotgear · Feb 04, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Those template codes don't work at all. They come out as

[skill]Echo[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Mending[/skill][skill]Healing Breeze[/skill][skill]Frenzy[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]

How do you get a 3 class Paladin?!? Please tell me, I NEEDZ uber PvE Whammo pwnage

Noob stole my build. Except mine's better, it has Sever Artery and Galrath Slash.

Anyway, the reason people choose W/Mo is pretty simple, really: People want to be The Tank(tm), the class that refuses to die. Naturally that means having huge amounts of defense (W/), which naturally becomes even more effective if you're able to recover what goes through (/Mo).

Others prefer to be the protector of their team, which I suppose is augmented by the ability to heal your teammates if you can't figure out how to hold aggro.

....... Of course, this is the theory. Some people snap out of it when reality bitchslaps them, some don't.

NamelessBeauty · Feb 04, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Needless to say in PvP lol cause it's in very little use or noobish use.

But in PvE there are serveral reasons:
1. You can solo craps. Using mending and don't care about healing since you take mostly very little dmg.
2. You can run from place to places.
3. It calls wammo lol

LightningHell · Feb 05, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

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Noob stole my build. Except mine's better, it has Sever Artery and Galrath Slash.

Needs moar Power Attack.

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Needless to say in PvP lol cause it's in very little use or noobish use.

Mending Touch would be one option, although that's been used less recently (recently being...the past year or so).

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 05, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Too many of you are applying pvp situations in your discussion when the topic is on a much simpler level-PVE.

Side Note: BTW-in MANY cases, knock down/after shock works great--in PVE. As does most of the other builds mentioned here, why does EVERY topic have to boil down to an argument about PVP builds? You know good and well that any average W/Mo build will work fine in PVE with a good player, just as any great build will suck with a poor player. SO- Stay on topic and discuss the matter at hand.

LightningHell · Feb 05, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

/sigh

The KD/AS argument continues. It's been argued time to time again. The issue here is not how easy it is to disrupt, i.e. why it isn't used in PvP, but how effective it is (or the lack of such effectiveness), i.e. why it shouldn't be used in both arenas.

And we know good and well that an empty skillbar + henchmen will work fine in PvE. Doesn't stop putting skills on the skillbar from being better than an empty bar.

I agree, though. This is getting offtopic...

Trvth Jvstice · Feb 05, 2008, 05:02 AM // 05:02

* I should have said, occasionally KD/AS works great in PVE- I find high dmg axe builds to work best for me in PVE. OF course it's easy to play around with builds in PVE

PVE is meant for fun right? What could be more fun in-game than trying out different builds against a computer controlled enemy that has the same battle plan every time? I know I had a blast using KD/AS, until it stopped working.

Biostem · Feb 05, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Currently, I think the W/M trend is vestigial; between the 3 campaigns and gwen, there are enough skills for a warrior to perform very well w/o having to go to another profession. When there was only prophecies, there was a a bit more of a reason to branch out from your primary profession...

Antithesis · Feb 05, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

I think almost every Warrior starts out as a W/Mo assuming it's the best of both worlds for offense and survivability. That is true to some degree in early missions as you learn how to play the game while pug'ing with similarly inexperienced players. But as you gain more experience, you leave Monking to the Monks and focus on your role within the team as either a raw damage dealer, or simply to hold agro or bodyblock.

I struggled for a long time to find a role for my Warrior other than to keep agro off my backline. More often than not, your target is dead in PvE before you get more than a couple of attacks off, so while i always run an offensive bar, damage dealing has never been my highest priority. In the early Prophecies days I did spend some time as a W/Mo (after ascending from a W/N) to provide a clutch heal, condition removal or rez when my backline was under pressure (degen sucked hard due to the terribad Monk henchies / Rebirth helped with god-awful hench Warrior AI / Heroes didn't exist), not to save my own arse with Mending or Live Vicariously.

These days there are 1200 skills to choose from, functional henchy bars and godly heroes to flesh out a team's deficiencies - there's simply no need for a Warrior to provide supplemental / self healing or a hard rez. I tend to play a utility role as a W/P God Mode D-Slasher spamming Save Yourselves and Dwarven Headbutt for team-wide damage mitigation and to lock down a caster. The fact that D-Slash does decent damage is incidental as i'll never be the primary damage dealer in a PvE team. It's on my bar to build an adrenal chain so i can best perform my role of holding agro and protecting my squishies. And if i just want to lay down some smack, i can stick to spamming D-Slash and still outdamage most Warrior builds.

I see no role in PvE for a W/Mo (other than some learner farmer builds and maybe Rebirth in bad pugs) when there are far better skills out there for anyone with more than a few months experience playing the game. My guess is most W/Mo's you see are inexperienced players, dyed-in-the-wool Paladin roleplayers, farmers running a crappy build, or tools who either know it all or don't know about GWG, Guildwiki or PvX.

Drop the /Mo and trust your Monks (or Rt's, D/N's, P's, N/Rt's, N/Mo's) to keep you alive and condition-free while you keep the bad guys from owning their face.

Tyla · Feb 05, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Why you would want to bring a spell that blinds people you're killing, I have no idea. If you want a damage followup, bring a damage attack. Besides, why aren't you using Crushing after Backbreaker?

Even then, if he wants to blind with backbreaker - why not use Belly Smash? (yeah, yeah - it sucks but not as much as that...)

Quote:

This sounds like you're trying make a use out of Body Blow, when tere are probably better options.

Agreed - [skill]eviscerate[/skill] ftw.

Winterclaw · Feb 06, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Plague Touch or any conditional removal beats evicerate... So it's marginally better than 100 blades.